From: "Chad Martin" <chad@th...>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 11:49 AM
Subject: [NetRep] Rulings Digest #58
In Digest #57, I was dumb:
Re: We Have Come to Kill
Is this meant to imply that the character cannot be brought into play if
there is not ENOUGH general or direct influence?
*** No. You may play a character that exceeds your influence, but you
have to resolve the influence by the end of the next organization phase.
I actually should have seen this CRF ruling, under, of all things, We
Have Come to Kill:
"You must have enough influence to control the character to play this card."
Please consider the existing CRF ruling to still be correct.
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IIRC, only hero resources affect hero resources; so Bilbo can't walk up
to Goblin-Gate and blow the horn, expecting the goblins to share old
memories;
*** Blazon of the Eye and Horn of Anor add direct influence to the
bearer. They do not affect hero or minion resources.
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If a character has a follower and the follower's mind is increased
beyond the DI of it's controlling character, what happens to the
follower? Is it removed from DI and placed under GI?
*** That's correct, though the character does not use up any GI until
the player's next organization phase.
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If the controlling character's DI is later in the turn increases, does
the follower go back under the control of the character?
*** No.
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The Wizards Player Guide states that Allies don't require influence to
be used at all, yet the allies I am planning on using have mind stats of
3 (Various Ents) and the same section also mentions 'controlling
character' which still makes it sound like influence is required.
Can someone clarify how allies work with characters for me
*** The ally's mind stat is used when the ally is being influenced away
by your opponent. Allies do not consume direct influence from the
controlling character.
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Does that immediate effect on GI and DI then have immediate effects for
the subsequent play of cards like Call of Home in the same turn? I.e.
will a player's GI be considered all used up if say Elrond popped out
from Gandalf's control?
*** Yes and no, respectively.
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Can agents like Grimburgoth, Elerina etc. still use their special
abilities if I have already taken an agent action with them?
*** Yes, assuming the active conditions for the ability are in play.
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To Get You Away says the agent taps, but not 'tap the agent to...'. So,
can it be used on tapped agents?
*** No.
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Again on To Get You Away, but I guess it goes for all prisoner cards:
does a captured wizard give -5 points?
*** No.
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Does moving back to his homesite (ie removing all site cards) tap an agent?
*** No.
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Will the wizard still be considered to be in play? The rules state
that cards placed off to the side are in play for the purpose of
uniqueness, I suppose that means they're not considered to be in play
for any other purposes. Which means I can play characters anywhere
under GI once my wizard is captured, right?
*** You answered your own question for the first one. Your assumption
is correct on the second question.
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If I discard the prisoner-card (like To Get You Away) with Marvels Told,
will the prisoner be released or discarded?
*** The prisoner is released.
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Reveal Wormtongue as a FW-player at Isengard. IIRC Orthanc is a FW
haven. Is Wormtongue allowed to move to a haven? No, he is not. Not
stated on the card. How can he show up there?
*** An agent popping up at its home site is not considered movement.
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Do I have to tap the site for playing lucky search?! I'm a bit confused
regarding the CRF "Unless explicitly stated otherwise you need an
untapped site to play an item, ally or faction and successful play taps
the company's site" and the fact, that the "scout takes control" of the
item. IMHO you don't need to tap the site, because "taking control"
isn't the same like "playing".
*** You do not have to tap the site, for the reasoning you give.
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I noticed many decks on the net have 3 Wizard cards, but most in the
rulebooks have 2 Wizard cards, was there a change in the rules to allow
for 3 Wizards?
*** Yes. See the Tournament Rulings in the CRF.
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Can you use hero 'test' cards like Wizard's test to test a minion gold ring?
*** No.
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If an orc or troll has the hero version of the One Ring, will it give
the +1 corruption point to all characters in his company?
*** No.
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Does a Fallen Wizard (ie the character) count as a Ringwraith for the
purpose of playing cards like Ancient Secrets, While the Yellow Face
Sleeps and Above the Abyss?
*** No.
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Just checking on this one, but I assume a hero Scroll of Isildur has no
effect (ie the +2 to test rolls) if I play it on an orc or troll?
*** That's a good assumption.
--------
however it (the hero Scroll) does help with testing minion gold rings?
(assuming I played it on a non-orc/troll character)
*** That's right.
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After a wizard is played characters can only be brought in with direct
influence or at the same site as a wizard, which also fits with this
theme. What about after he is killed?? Can these characters then only
be brought in by direct influence, which fits my thematic
interpretation, or do we go back to the same situation as before the
wizard is revealed.
*** Go back to the rules for when the wizard is not revealed.
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Allies like Tom Bombadil that have movements restrictions, can they move
from and to a non restricted place, but passing through restricted regions?
*** Yes.
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If they can, then is it possible to use Here, There, or Yonder to play
an ally in a ruins and lairs where they wouldn't normally be allowed to
move to or from?
*** Nigel Buckle stated this well, though the nonsensical wording may
be clarified in the future:
Well Here There Yonder says "An ally may be played and placed under the
character's control if the result is greater than 6 plus the ally's mind
stat and the ally is not restricted from moving in this site's region."
This line doesn't make any sense as no ally is restricted from moving in
a region just to sites unless it's there to specifically prevent this.
So the answer is no, IMHO.
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Why does 'Precious Gold Ring' have a marshalling point value of '1'.
When there seems no possible way to get the marshalling point, i.e.
'precious gold ring' is played in the combo to get a ring out then
discarded.
*** You are not required to test gold ring items, so the item is worth
one MP while it is in play.
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If you play a card like Way is Shut on your opponent, would moving
to/from and Underdeep on your following turn on purpose be illegal in
some way?
*** Nope. When the movement is attempted, the first effect declared is
from The Way is Shut. If it successfully resolves, the company doesn't
move.
--------
Why?
*** ICE ruled that if you are returned to your site of origin, you can
do nothing during your site phase.
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I played Foul Fumes during one of his companies' m/h phase. His other
company had no rangers, had a face down site card (ie, was planning to
move) and it's current site was Dead Marshes (ie, a Shadowland, so FF
would affect any movement therein), so the question was: do we have a
m/h phase for it or not? Regardless of what new site was to be
revealed, the company was going to be returned to its site of origin,
since the now passive condition was in effect.
We decided to go ahead and reveal the site and draw cards, then end the
phase. Is this the right way to handle it?
*** Yes, you handled the situation correctly.
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How exactly do our favorite carrion birds interact with the attacks
generated by Roused Dragons? (Regiment of Black Crows, that is.)
*** They don't. Roused dragons do not create a hazard creature attack.
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Re: Bounced by Foul Fumes
Though, it sounds like it means I could have played creature hazards on
him based on his proposed movement -- is that true?
*** Not if the company is returned to its site of origin, since there
would be only one chain of effects, starting with the declaration of the
effect of Foul Fumes. Creatures must start a chain of effects, so there
is no time to play one.
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Can I play Thorough Search before facing the automatic attack so I don't
risk my scout getting tapped by the attack?
*** No. You can do nothing during your site phase before you face the
automatic attack.
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My Alatar is controlling Elrond at Rivendell, and then teleports to
another company. If there is not enough free general influence to
control him, then I think the influence situation does not need to be
resolved until my next organisation phase. I assume my free general
influnce is now zero for the purposes of cards such as Call of Home/the
Sea. In my next organisation phase there is still not enough influence
to control Elrond.
a) Is he discarded or returned to hand?
b) Can he bring in a small mind character as a follower first?
*** Regarding your assumptions: They are all correct except that
Elrond does not count against your GI until your next organization
phase. Regarding a): You must discard characters to get your used GI
at 20 or less, Elrond need not go, necessarily. Regarding b): If he
does bring in a character, it is required to go back to your hand, per
the CRF, before you start discarding characters to resolve your
influence issues.
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If a resource such as Wizards Ring is played at a haven this would tap
the site. What if I wish to play another resource there? Does the haven
untap in the untap phase? If not, can I play a duplicate haven card in
the organisation phase and move to it? If not does that mean I actually
have to leave and come back again next turn?
*** Havens do not untap. There are many ways to play a second copy of
the haven, which would come into play untapped, but you cannot from a
site to the same site. The NetRep team is currently discussing the
variety of "Haven untapping" tricks, and I'll probably issue a ruling in
the near future.
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I understand that characters can tap to support corruption checks at the
Free Council. Can resource cards to modify these checks by played by
either player, the resource player or not at all?
*** They can be played by both players. The Free Council doesn't
happen during anybody's turn, so there is no "resource player" at the
Free Council.
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Does this mean that unused GI is calculated at the end of the
organisation phase and then remains unchanged until my next organisation
phase despite any effects that cause followers to move from under DI?
*** No. The only time when an apparent use of GI is ignored is when a
character is brought into GI from under DI outside of the organization
phase. All other changes to GI happen immediately.
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What about a hazard card that increases a characters mind? Can I put off
dealing with this until my next organisation phase?
*** That card would affect your GI immediately.
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Long Dark Reach does not specify this but the Nazgul attack is part of
the effect of the card. Does this count as an extra hazard?
*** An attack created by Long Dark Reach does not count against the
hazard limit.
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Re: No Way Forward
can companies attempt to move illegally in the face of these cards (i.e.
more regions than allowed) in the hope of drawing something to trash the
hazard, or are they automatically prohibited from attempting such movement?
*** They are prohibited from attempting the movement.
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Does Agburanar at Home work against himself?
*** No. His effect is in play only after he has resolved, which is too
late to be affected by himself. Get it?
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If I have doors of night in play, and play foul fumes on company 1, and
then on company 2 play morgul night, do both companies sites tap if they
have a wilderness in their site path. Or did foul fumes already effect
the site during company 1's turn and thus can't effect it again?
*** No, it works because Foul Fumes did not affect the site until the
wilderness was turned into a shadow-land.
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Does it also apply to cards like Star of High Hope?
(Card text: Environment. The prowess of each Elf and
Dunadan is modified by +1 (by +2 if Gates of Morning
is in play).
Or is it ruled out by the ruling I included belove?
Would it be different if it wasn't an environment or
if there was an additionally/alternatively clause
(e.g. Alternativly if GoM is in play +2 prowess to
all Elf & Dun)?
*** The CRF ruling to which you refer does not apply to Star of High
Hope, since Star of High Hope affects the characters outside the
Movement/Hazard phase. The ruling is quoted below. If this doesn't
answer your question, please restate it, preferably using less pronouns.
CRF, Turn Sequence Rulings, Movement/Hazard Phase, General:
Once the effects of an environment card have been applied to a target
during a given movement/hazard phase, that effect is not applied again
to that target during the current turn.
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this card popped up during one of the games. Can't find anything about
it in the errata list. the +1 ends at the end of the turn or stays as
long as the card is in play? can the +1 be stacked by playing a second
Scimitar of Steel?
*** It remains in play as long is Scimitars of Steel remains in play,
and it can be duplicated.
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When Lady of the Golden Wood is played as a permanent event, does she
count as Galadriel not being in Lorien for the purposes of the Balrog of
Moria card?
*** No. Only the character Galadriel is considered for Balrog of Moria.
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Does your card drawing privileges become voided when you draw the last
card of your play deck?
For example, you have 2 cards in your play deck, you move to a site that
allows you to draw 3 cards...can you draw a card after you shuffle your
new play deck?
*** You certainly may draw that third card.
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But can Strider be used in an attempt to influence Aragorn away?
*** No. A copy of Aragorn is required to help the influence attempt,
as ruled in Digest #38 (Thanks, Phil!).
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But Gollum can be used to influence Stinker and vice versa, right?
*** From the ME:LE rulebook: "Instead of revealing a card that is
identical to the card being influenced, you may reveal a manifestation
of that card or the same resource of the opposing side." So, yes.
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So, Farmer Maggot vs. Unabated in Malice (card text below):
Galdor is at the Barrow-downs on which an Unabated in Malice is
played. Farmor Maggot is in play. Galdor goes in, faces the attack and
instead of fighting it he lets Farmer Maggot take him to Old Forest.
Farmer Maggot states the attack is now cancelled. Unabated in Malice
states in return that the first attempt to cancel the attack instead
cancel the Unabated. So IMHO Galdor finds himself still facing the 1@8
undead attack. Is this correct?
*** That is correct, though the movement effect of Farmer Maggot still
resolves successfully. Consider it a parting shot by the Barrow Wights.
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I think the other question was about Chance of Being Lost. I moved from
a tapped Buhr Widu to the Easterling Camp and Jeroen 'the Champ'
Ouwehand succesfully played Chance of Being Lost on my already thinned
out hobbits (while my agent hazard strategy worked great, see Wim's
comment about Nimloth taking out a 9/11 Pallando, my resources were
pretty crappy) and wanted to send them to a Buhr Widu from his own site
deck. Then actually three questions came up:
1) Is that possible?
2) Will the Buhr Widu be tapped or untapped?
3) Can I do anything during the site phase, or does this count as being
returned to the site of origin and am I therefore prevented of doing
anything during the site phase?
*** 1) Sure.
2) It's his copy of the site from his location deck, so it would be
untapped.
3) Since it is a different copy of the site, it is not considered
returning to the site of origin, and you can have a normal site phase.
-------
*** Since Flies and Spiders is playable on a character and can affect a
strike, it can be played during the strike sequence.
Chad Martin
chad@th...
Official Council of Elrond NetRep
http://www.feinus.com/ccg/elrond.htm
Assisted by: Nigel Buckle, Wim Heemskerk and Travis Took