We shall call this digest the Cleaning House Digest.
First, mistakes from Digest #50:
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I have both The Moon is Dead and Plague of Wights in play plus Doors of
Night. I play a Chill Douser. Do I get to add one strike first then
double or double first then add one?
*** It's the hazard player's choice.
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*** This was wrong and is covered below.
========
Doors of Night and Choking Shadows are both in play.
Opponent plays Orc-lieutenant. 1 strike of 7 becomes 3 of 9.
I play Marvels Told on Choking Shadows.
The lieutenant returns to 1 of 7.
Opponent plays another Choking Shadows.
Is the Orc-lieutenant again boosted to 3 of 9 or is this not the 'same
chain of effects'?
*** There is time for multiple chains of effect before entering the
attack sequence, so the Orc-lieutenant is re-boosted.
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*** Technically, the attack sequence has already started, so the ruling
above should refer to the time before assigning strikes, but is
otherwise correct.
========
So you can use OttS to play a 6-mind agent, but you can't combine it
with TotV to play Anarin?
*** That's correct.
--------
*** Wrong. As per an old ruling from Brian, you cannot use Open to
the
Summons to play a 6 mind character in any case.
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"Reluctant final parting" cannot be played against the Balrog player,
but the Balrog player may play it him/herself. Now, in the Errata it
says that this card does not affect "The Balrog". Should the Errata be
"The Balrog player" or does the Errata mean that only allies played on
the Balrog is not affected by this card?
*** Balrog players may NOT play Reluctant Final Parting. Balrog
players are not affected by Reluctant Final Parting, not just The Balrog
himself.
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*** Wrong again. Balrog players can play Reluctant Final Parting all
they want. Have fun.
========
Further to Phil's question, I have one of my own: is this ability to
halve hazard limits and sideboard in a hazard an optional rule, or the
effect of one of the many cards I don't possess?
*** Nope it's a standard rule, straight out of the ME:TW rulesbook.
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*** It's actually out of the ME:TD rules insert, but it's still a
tournament rule.
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Ok, just so I'm sure on this, with the exception of orcs and trolls a
fallen wizard can start with any character in their company including
agents? Or is Thrall of the voice or open to the summons the only ways
to start with one in a starting company.
*** Agents require Open to the Summons. Orcs and Trolls require Bad
Company or Thrall of the Voice.
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*** Agents can also be played using Thrall of the Voice.
========
Now onto the old (some very old) issues:
*** The debate about how creature enhancing effects are combined is now
at an end. This should answer all the "How many strikes does an
undead
get with all those events in play..." questions.
- The player who's turn it currently is (the resource player) gets to
choose what order passive effects from hazards are applied.
- The resource player may choose differently each time the situation
applies.
For example, in the case of an undead attack where The Moon is Dead,
Plague of Wights and Doors of Night are all in play, the resource player
may choose to apply the doubling effect from Plague of Wights first
before any strike adding effect is applied. Note this follow Annotation
10 which reads:
If more than one action is required to be the first action declared in a
chain of effects, the player whose turn it is chooses the order in which
they are declared. No other actions may be declared in this follow-up
chain until the multiple required actions have been declared.
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can a person playing with Sauron discard characters per turn without
limit as well? If not, does the discard of a single character rule out
playing any characters that turn?
*** Having the card Sauron in play allows you to play as many
characters per turn as you like. This does not mean that you may discard
more than one character per turn, nor does it allow you to both discard
and play characters in one turn.
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*** The CRF, turn sequence rulings, Organization Phase, heading
Organizing Companies has the following entry: "When a company splits up,
its player chooses which characters are the original company and which
characters are a new company, unless otherwise directed by a card. All
resource permanent-events played on the original company stay with the
original company."
We add to that now: "For all hazard permanent-events played on the
original company the hazard player chooses to which resulting company it
belongs on a per hazard basis."
To get back to the original question from some time ago: this means for
example that if a company with 'Something Has Slipped' on it splits up,
the hazard player can choose were the card goes. Clarification: This
ruling only relates to events played on the company, rather than
characters in the company.
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*** On a more recent subject: The challenge deck rules booklet is
not
authorative (just a summary), challenge deck cards are authorative.
This is similar to the ruling recently made about the Balrog rules booklet.
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And, lastly, some new issues since the last digest:
So if somebody beats you to the 'Hog, you yourself can't play any
Balrog-specific cards?
*** Incorrect. You may play foo-specific cards if you have declared
yourself a foo player.
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But EoD brings the undead back as a *creature* that attacks. If it's a
creature, it has to start its own chain of effects. Doesn't this block
EoD from being played in response to anything?
*** Correct.
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A further question (unrelated to the above discussion since EoD forces
the play of a creature hazard): it's only hazard creatures and
corruption that must start chains of effects, right? Or is any card
producing an attack limited thus?
*** Any card producing an attack.
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Let's say Gene keys Shelob's Brood to minion Carn Dum. Because Carn
Dum's a self-respecting Darkhaven, its text will automatically cancel
the attack. Can he then use Black Vapor to negate that effect? Or
have
I finally found cause to learn the difference between active and passive
conditions?
*** Black Vapor will not negate that effect.
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I know "raceless" allies make for tough cancellation of CvCC attacks
(e.g. if they have the not-quite-a-troll ally, a Concealment's in
order). I presume this still applies even if the ally won't create a
strike, as with Great Bats. Short form: Can a company containing only a
no-prowess, no-race ally and orc & troll characters have its CvCC attack
canceled by Dark/Orc Quarrels?
*** Answer to the short form: no.
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Flatter a Foe lists the same difficulty number for both orcs and trolls.
If a company consisting solely of characters of these races initiates
CvCC, may the defender use FaF to attempt to cancel?
*** Yes.
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Must a player arrange his companies such that all mind is "paid for"
if
possible? Or can you intentionally move followers into GI to force
yourself to discard excess characters (which strikes me as a cheesy way
to get around the rather strict constraints on voluntary character
discards)?
and
Assuming the answer to my previous question is "You must maintain
control if possible, because the rules say you can only transfer a
follower to GI if enough GI is available," what if So You've Come Back
(or whichever hazard raises the mind of non-followers, if I've
misremembered) would affect the character? (I.e. maybe there is exactly
3 GI free, and the character's mind is 3 WHILE A FOLLOWER, but would be
4 once no longer a follower--is that a loophole?)
*** Wim put a lot of work into quoting rules text for this one, so I'll
give him the mic:
I'll set it out in detail here:
Quoting the METW (/MELE) rulesbook (as Antonio also looked up):
"If you have enough unused general influence points, you may move a
follower from direct influence to general influence (or vice versa)
during your organization phase."
So you cannot put yourself into the predicament by moving a follower
into GI, but you are not forced to move characters into DI against your
will either.
And -regarding So You've Come Back- IMHO if a character uses four GI as
a non-follower you must have four free GI to make him a non-follower,
regardless of what he uses / how he is controlled in other situations.
The METW (/MELE) rules go on:
"If a character directly influencing a follower is removed from play,
the follower remains in play and does not immediately count against
general influence. However, during your next organization phase, you
must discard the follower, place the follower under the control of
another character in his company with enough available direct influence,
or place the follower under the control of general influence (if enough
is available)."
So if for example the issue is caused by the death of your wizard, you
may only discard his former followers till you're in the clear again;
you cannot feely choose what characters to discard. You may rearange to
avoid discards, but are not forced to. You aren't even forced to take
the followers into GI if you can.
Now we need the MELE rules (bringing character into play), to introduce
'the Mouth trick (part 1)':
"You may play a non-Ringwraith character card. You must place him at his
home site or at any Darkhaven site. If you do not have enough general
influence or direct influence to control the character by the end of
your organization phase, then the character is returned to your hand.
You must place him at his home site or at any Darkhaven site."
Note that this is the only situation in which the character is send back
to hand and not discarded.
You may change the follower-non follower situation before you play the
character and thus you can take a character out of DI first to force the
then played character back into hand later. You cannot change the
situation anymore after the character went back into hand - end of the
organization phase, remember.
Now, more MELE rules, to see what hazards can cause:
"Discarding a character
Instead of bringing a new character into play during
your
organization phase, you may discard a character that is at a Darkhaven
or at his home site. Your Ringwraith may not be discarded.
You must take this action when you are forced to
discard a
character due to a lack of available influence. In this case, the
character(s) need not be at a Darkhaven.
Clarification: If a character's mind
changes at any point, the
influence required to control him also changes.
Clarification: if you do not have enough
influence to control all
of your characters in play, they remain in play. However, you must
discard any excess characters at the end of your next organization
phase. If you bring a character into play during your organization phase
and then do not have enough influence to control him, the character just
brought into play must be returned to your hand at the end of your
organization phase."
So, if you have to take measures for another reason then the two already
covered higher up, you can choose freely.
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If the Balrog rules say that a freehold is never an underdeeps surface
site for the purpose of playing hazards, it means I can still move the
Balrog there from a non-surface site, using Out he Sprang (as that card
allows movement to or from an underdeeps surface site only)
*** Correct.
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It's exactly that part of Out he Sprang that I have another question
about: The card says from OR to an underdeeps surface site. So you can't
move with this card from one surface site to another?
*** Correct.
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In no way are the rules as twisted as that an overt FW company is
considered a hero company for the purpose of dumping Nothing to Eat or
Drink on them, right?
*** The rules are not nearly that twisted.
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Nature's Revenge says, among other things, that it creates an
auto-attack at an unprotected Wizardhaven. But since Wizardhavens all
have the language on them that "all attacks against companies at this
site are cancelled", what does Nature's Revenge do?
*** Nature's Revenge overrides the text on the wizardhavens.
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When The Nazgul are Abroad, nazgul can attack a company with a ring
moving in shadow-land. Is this attack considered keyed to shadow-land?
That is, can Gollum cancel it, or can it attack in Rhudaur with Agmar
Arises?
*** The attack is considered keyed to the shadow-land.
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If my opponent moves two companies to the same non-haven site, can I
play one card on-guard on each company, and then reveal them both at
once during the site phase (when the two companies have merged into one)?
*** Yes.
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If my wizard fails a corruption check, I get -5 MP, right? But if he is
only discarded and not eliminated, can I bring him back into play again
later if I draw him again? If yes, do I still get the -5 MPs?
*** Wizards are never discarded on a corruption check. If a wizard
fails a corruption check by any amount, he is eliminated and you get the
-5 MP.
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As a Minion, can I combine Threats with another Faction-recruiting card
like Gifts as Given of Old for +9 to my roll? Or does Threats preclude
any other modifications to the attempt?
*** You can combine them.
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Can I use A Friend or Three (or Join with that Power, I suppose)
defensively when my opponent is making an influence check against one of
my characters?
*** Nope.
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If I have a single hobbit in a company and he faces one attack of
multiple strikes, any strikes beyond the first will be converted to -1
modifiers. After this occurs, if I pay Halfling Stealth, is the entire
modified strike cancelled as I think, or only one of the -1 modifiers?
*** The whole strike is cancelled.
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If my Scout is wounded but not tapped, can he still do as I think and
tap to play a card such as Concealment, or to bring out an item?
*** No, wounded characters may not tap.
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With Rescue Prisoners and Dreams of Lore it says you can't untap until
after storing at a Haven during the organisation phase. I assume this
means you then have to wait until the next untap phase before untapping?
*** Yup.
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Nenya, Vilya and Narya can be duplicated in a given turn, right?
*** Sure.
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They can't be played in an opponents turn during CvCC because they
neither (specifically) affect an attack or strike (even though of course
they do help). Correct?
*** Incorrect. They modify prowess, which is considered affecting
the
attack.
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If Galadriel has a Star-glass, can she tap to turn it into the Phial of
Galadriel?
*** Good question. It'll likely be answered in the next rulings
digest.
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An agent (as hazard) makes an influence attempt in the same way normal
characters do, and normal characters can't try to influence followers,
allies or items from a wizard/ringwraith - does that then apply to
agents as well (ie Gandalf controls Elrond, can Elrond be influenced
away with Your Welcome is Doubtful?)
*** Correct, kinda. Agents cannot influence allies or items from a
wizard or ringwraith, but there is no restriction on influencing away
followers, whether the influencer is an agent or not.
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if you are allowed to increase your hand size (e.g. with pallando), is
it (a) optional to do so or is the player (b) obliged to do so?
*** b is correct.
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he plays fallen alatar and wants to start with fram framson/thrall of
the voice. is this possible?
*** No.
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Does Wizard's Trove allow storing Align Palantir without actually
storing the Palantir?
*** No.
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Wisp of Pale Sheen fights avatar (Wizard / Ringwraith / Balrog). Is his
mind ever 'equal to or lower than the strike's prowess'?
*** No.
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Fell Beast is played to key a Nazgul to shadow-land. It is followed by
Out of the Black Sky, which send Khamul the Easterling down on the company.
Opponents responds by MT-ing Khamul. What happens?
a) Khamul gets discarded, but he still attacks 'first'
b) Khamul is gone, but a 2nd Out of the Black Sky can
be played on
another Nazgul permanent that will then attack or another Nazgul can be
played and attacks (i.e. the Fell Beast sticks around and is still
waiting for a Nazgul to work with)
c) Khamul is gone and the Fell Beast goes too.
d) Khamul is gone and the Fell Beast goes back to hand,
because of
the CRF ruling on it.
*** c is the correct action. Quoting Eljar Haugen's logic:
A won't happen because Out of the Black Sky won't resolve when it's
target is gone.
D won't happen, since the CRF states that the nazgul attack only has to
be declared. Out of the Black Sky is such a declaration.
B won't happen because that would break with the CRF-ruling. The CRF
says that the nazgul to use Fell Beast must be first in the
chain-of-effects following the resolution of Fell Beast, or it's
returned to your hand. Since you can't play another Out of the Black Sky
until the first chain-of-effects has resolved (it is declaring an
attack) and the CRF states that the attack only has to be declared for
Fell Beast not to return to your hand, the Fell Beast is already used
(you have declared and keyed a nazgul-attack to shadowhold even if it
didn't resolve).
So C will it be, and there's another stab in the back of your nazgul
hazard-strategy
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Re: Twilight
Can I count it as a resource when I build my deck (to get equal number
of resources and hazards)?
*** Yes.
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Re: Twilight
Can I recycle it with Smoke Rings?
*** No.
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Re: Twilight
Can I return it to my hand with Nenselde?
*** No.
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Re: Dragon's Blood
The card reads, "If the strike fails, the target
character must make a body check modified by -1..."
What if the strike is ineffective? If the strike
succeeds the character makes a body check and if the
strike fails the character makes a body check. If the
strike is ineffective does nothing happen and the card
is discarded - no points no body check?
*** Yup. No points, no body check.
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I am playing "Stealth" on a Scout to protect a 2 character -company
from
creature-attacks. First hazard the scout faces is "Seized by terror"
and
back he went after an unlucky roll.
a) Is it now possible to play a creature on the scout (who left the
original company) or the other character (who still forms the original
company).
*** This is still under debate.
b) Has the scout, who is heading back to his site of origin a new hazard
limit of two on its own.
*** No.
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Final corruption checks:
Before a game ends final corruption checks have to be made.
a) can I still use resources from my hand, to support these final checks.
*** Yes.
b) can other characters tap in support (like in combat) to give a +1
bonus to a corruption-check, do they have to be at the same site and
will they get some kind of malus instead.
*** Malus? Characters at the same site as the character facing the
corruption check may tap in support of the check.
c) can I chose the order of who takes corruption-checks first, or is it
done by companies sorted by site.
*** You can choose the order of your characters.
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If I play this on a company starting in Rivendell, and I move them to
Ost-in-edhil. In the same turn, another company moves from Barrow-downs
also to Ost-in-edhil. As it is a non-haven site, they are automatically
combined before Great-road kicks in. Now,
a) They all return to Rivendell;
b) Great-road fizzles, so they all stay in Ost-in-edhil;
c) Only the characters from the company that Great-road was originally
played on return to Rivendell
*** a is correct.
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Can you untap an orc or troll with Hall of Fire?
*** If you're a fallen-wizard, yes.
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When you suffer a minus to DI (eg I'll Report You) it must first come
from 'general' DI and then from specific DI against orcs or whatever.
Does this apply to GI as well? What I'm talking about here is Truths of
Doom, which gives you +6 GI of which you can use only 2 for characters.
Now if Cruel Claw Perceived is played (the MEWH hazard that reduces GI)
can you first 'use up' the 4 extra GI from Truths of Doom before you
come to the GI you're using for characters?
*** There is no restriction to how you deal with your GI in this case,
so you may use the 4 extra GI first, if you'd like. This is similar to
the extra GI given to ringwraith players in the tournament rules.
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All of your non-Orc/Troll characters are considered
to be hero characters in White Hand!
So I can play Stealth or Block on a minion Dwarf character. But I can't
play We have come to kill on a minion Dwarf, right?!
*** You may play both cards on minion or hero dwarves as a
fallen-wizard. There is no restriction on this in the White Hand rules.
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Can you store a misc mp card which does not require storing using
wizards trove ? So it can be applied to cards which state "put this card
in your marshalling point pile". Like Smoke on the Wind, etc ?
*** No.
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And so it ends. For those of you who are in playgroups that think the
hazard player gets to choose the order of hazard creature pumpers, pull
out Annotation 10 and show them what's up.
Chad Martin
chad@th...
Official Council of Elrond NetRep
http://www.feinus.com/ccg/elrond.htm
Assisted by: Nigel Buckle, Wim Heemskerk and Travis Took