Going over 20 General Influence level in M/H phase

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Barliman Butterbur
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Going over 20 General Influence level in M/H phase

Post by Barliman Butterbur » Fri May 19, 2006 2:54 pm

Hello everyone,

I was playing a game last night and a question came up.  I was playing a Agent influence strategy against my opponent.  Here's the scenario:

She had Frodo, Sam, Fatty and Bilbo out.  Fatty was under Bilbo's control, Bilbo using a lesser ring to increase his DI.  I had played a 'So You've Come Back' previously and this turn I played a 'Rebel-Talk' on Fatty so that Bilbo could no longer control him.

The question is this:  Would Fatty stay under Bilbo's control until the end of the turn?  Or would he be forced out of Bilbo's control in that M/H phase, thus depleting the last of her unused GI point and allowing me to play a nice fat 'Tookish Blood' card.  When do you re-organize companies based on GI and DI deficiencies?

Hope that makes sense.  Thank you in advance.

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jhunholz
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Post by jhunholz » Fri May 19, 2006 2:59 pm

He would be forced out of DI immediately, but the player doesn't have to reconcile his GI until the Org phase.  So Fatty would count against GI until the next org phase, when the player would have to decide what to do so he would be back under his limit of 20 GI.

Barliman Butterbur
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Post by Barliman Butterbur » Fri May 19, 2006 3:08 pm

Is that's true does going over GI affect inluence rolls negativley, the same way being under affects them positiivley?  ie.  If she has 16 GI she gets to add 4 to her influence roll.  If she's using 24 GI she subtracts 4 from her influence roll.  ???

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Post by Zarathustra » Fri May 19, 2006 3:45 pm

You can use at most 100% of your GI, so the answer to the question is 'No'. :D

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Jaded
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Post by Jaded » Fri May 19, 2006 5:03 pm

jhunholz wrote:He would be forced out of DI immediately, but the player doesn't have to reconcile his GI until the Org phase.  So Fatty would count against GI until the next org phase, when the player would have to decide what to do so he would be back under his limit of 20 GI.
I'm sure you meant "So Fatty would not count against GI"

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Post by Zarathustra » Fri May 19, 2006 5:04 pm

I don't think so....

I think he means that Fatty would use up GI, but that he needn't be discarded immediately simply because of that (as he will need to be discarded in the next org phase unless rebel-talk is eliminated).

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jhunholz
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Post by jhunholz » Fri May 19, 2006 5:49 pm

Yes, that is what I meant (what Mark said).

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Gwaihir
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Post by Gwaihir » Fri May 19, 2006 7:02 pm

jhunholz wrote:Yes, that is what I meant (what Mark said).
Pity, as that's not correct. :P
Barilman wrote:The question is this:  Would Fatty stay under Bilbo's control until the end of the turn?  Or would he be forced out of Bilbo's control in that M/H phase, thus depleting the last of her unused GI point and allowing me to play a nice fat 'Tookish Blood' card.  When do you re-organize companies based on GI and DI deficiencies?
As Rebel-talk says, Fatty can no longer be controlled by DI, so he immediately stops being controlled by DI. However, that does not mean you now have to control him with GI (you can't decide such mid turn even if you wanted to). He's just not controlled at all anymore. For the hazard player that kinda sucks, as he is essentially freeing influence up for his opponent first (which he could even use to try for a faction or such), well before he hopefully has him in trouble (when he has to clean up next turn).

You must reorganize in your next organisation phase. Before you end that, it has to somehow all fit again.

Your GI can indeed not go negative. If for example the mind of a couple of characters controlled by GI is raised, the available GI could drop to zero, but not below.

See digests 7, 28 and 67.
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Zarathustra
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Post by Zarathustra » Fri May 19, 2006 11:48 pm

Hmmm....  I think that's right, but I wonder what implications it has for your the hazard-player's turn (maybe this is answered already?).  What if I play rebel-talk on Fatty, then go to influence away something from my opponent on the next turn: would fatty at that point count vs. GI?  Does Rebel-Talk really remember into the next turn when it was played?...

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Post by Barliman Butterbur » Sat May 20, 2006 4:00 am

I just found this in the CRF

INFLUENCE:

- A character removed from the control of direct influence outside the organization phase does not need to be controlled by general influence until that player's next organization phase.

- Changes to general influence take place immediately, with a minimum of zero free general influence.

So it seems to me that Fatty would infact use up any extra GI in her pool for this circumstance BUT she would not have to discard him due to insufficient GI.  Unless of course she couldn't get rid of Rebel-Talk next turn.  

So if this is the case the Tookish Blood that was played next would be a good play.

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Jaded
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Post by Jaded » Sat May 20, 2006 1:21 pm

No. Changes they mention come from cards that increase mind (So you've come back) or specifically say they change GI (Cruel Claw perceived, Emerald of Doriath)

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Post by Ûvatha » Mon May 22, 2006 3:43 pm

I have another question on this matter.

So, after all, is the The Mouth recicling combo legal or not ?? (he enters in you org. phase, taps to bring a resource from your discard pile to your play deck, and then go back to your hand at the end of the org. phase since you have no GI to control him)


Thanks in advance.


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Post by Jambo » Mon May 22, 2006 4:04 pm

Yes, the Mouth trick is very much legal.
Visit the Optional Rules forum and try out the community accepted Unofficial Errata.

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Sauron
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Post by Sauron » Mon May 22, 2006 5:46 pm

Ûvatha wrote:I have another question on this matter.

So, after all, is the The Mouth recicling combo legal or not ?? (he enters in you org. phase, taps to bring a resource from your discard pile to your play deck, and then go back to your hand at the end of the org. phase since you have no GI to control him)


Thanks in advance.


Ûvatha
Yes this is legal, as long as you can't re-org your companies in such a way as to keep him in play legally.

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Post by Ûvatha » Mon May 22, 2006 10:14 pm

Thanks.


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