Proxies

[Red Adept]

I, as much as the next person, enjoy having the cards to play with.  We've all invested a lot of money into this game and still enjoy playing it.

With the severely limited supply of cards around to purchase (an auction of both Balrog boxes sold for over $300 this month) and no chance of more product being made (reprints or new cards), what is everyone's opinion of proxies?

Personally, I am generally against the idea....for games where you can actually buy more cards.  I have a binder set of Balrog.  I have almost enough cards to be comfortable building decks.  Unfortunately, there are decks I just can't make with the cards I have and so the thought of proxying up a deck comes to mind.

Playing online isn't much of an option for me time-wise, where every card is a proxy...

I'm curious how other groups handle this situation for casual play.  Do you allow proxies?  I doubt they're allowed in 'official' tournaments.

[|Highwayman|]

I voted "Yes - for casual play only"

but I'd like to add an extra comment - while I probably wouldn't stop playing but I would feel really uncomfortable if my opponent was using a lot of proxies (like more than 10)

on the other hand if those proxies are color-printed and in nice quality I'll have nothing against playing someone who has a whole deck made of such proxies - so for me it's aesthetics really

though I'd never allow playing with proxies on tournaments - only in casual play when it really is Anything Goes

[Dirhaval]

I selected  Yes-why not.

Because the game is fun and I do not want limit the enjoyment of seeing cards used by my opponent. My opponent can acutally use 200 index cards and play. I bring a copy of all the spoilers and CRF rules with me anyway.

But I would only use proxies to determine if I can use a card that I do not have to good effect and then buy it. I am short of less than 100 for a one-per copy card set. I have those German promos. For a Mega-set (one for each unique and 3 non-unique, I need about 500; ~3800 cards in Mega-set).

Now I only use my cards since I am creative with my decks. I do play to win. I play to have fun and win in a creative way. I would be disappointed to get 20+ MP in three turns and call the council. I dislike one and two deck games...maybe that is why I am chronicling FATE.  Besides If my opponent is going to a tournament, he can use 'wild' cards and pick any card it can be if he draws it. It is just a game and I like to play it.

Another point of using proxies: There are so many ways to play:
5 wizards
5 fallen-wizards
9+2 RW+Sauron
1 balrog
1 non-wizard play

That is 23 players. I would say that each player has 4 possible decks to use and the deck has a good change of winning; IMHO. So that is about 100 games for one-deck play. Double that for 2-deck games. So 200 different gaming opportunities. Throw in the Scenerios of 50 more games to get 250. If you play 1-game a week; that is 5 years of fun. Five years!
After five years, you might get tired and start playing again METW-only; METD+METW+MEDM only a few times. Then get creative and make up some Elf and Dwarf-lord expansion for 8 more players. Play that for 2 years. Then travel to the Northern Waste to play with a Balrog and new landscape for another year. Then play with Dragonlords for 2 more years. That is 10 years of not playing the same deck twice. Enough for any CCG fan. Something to think about. If you play me and want to use a proxy, just let me know.


Dirhaval
President
Proxy Fan, INC

[Old Tuk]

I voted "Yes, why not?".

In casual games I use proxies. Just because I want to use all options. I must say: I dont own a Balrog set and I`d never pay 300 Euro for only one. Actually the only card I use quite often is Longbottom Leaf.

But why not allow to use proxies in tournaments? If you want to play high-level, you`ll have to beat every player. Not just the ones who own a complete set. Otherwise that would mean the collectors are in advantage compared to the "just-players"! Nowadays tournaments are fun. Please dont be so narrow-minded.

By the way: My proxies are printed in high quality. Perhaps you wouldnt even recocnize.

edit: I`ll always tell you that I use proxies before the game starts. No problem, I`ll have a smoke and turn my Longbottom Leafs to Smoke Rings...

[Dorfl]

I also selected why not.
As long as in tournaments you use card sleeves with non-transparent back sides, and you can't easily notice any difference in thickness (during shuffling) I don't think it's a problem.

[Sauron]

I know I may be against the majority here, but this is a CCG.  That's Collectible Card Game.  Part of the game is collecting cards.  Those who spend time and effort trading, buying, etc should be rewarded. If I work really hard to get a copy of a card I should reap those rewards.

Side note, I'm not against proxies for unique cards you own a copy of already, if you're just doing it to save time swapping cards between decks. Not everyone has the luxury of owning 2 Uvatha, 2 Mouth of Sauron, 2 Baduila, etc.

[Old Tuk]

Hmmm.... On the one hand thats a good point Sauron, but what if the CCG is out of print and certain cards are not available anymore?  

[Wacho]

All CCGs are like that.  They are collectible.  Sets are printed and then go out of print.  I'm with Sauron on this.  Play with the cards you own.  At least prices for MECCG cards are reasonable.  Try getting your hands on some rare Magic cards like dual lands or moxes.

[Ringbearer]

 Try getting your hands on some rare Magic cards like dual lands or moxes.

*cough-balrogset-cough*

[Sauron]

1 Balrog set approximately 300 USD
1 Mox approximately 400 USD

And realize there are 5 moxes.

This doesn't include a black lotus which will run you close to 1k.

[thorondor]

And realize there are 5 moxes.

This doesn't include a black lotus which will run you close to 1k.

thats one of the reasones, why i would never start with magic! money is too big an issue, thats not fun!

and though it may suprise you all:
i voted for the first option. i don´t mind if someone uses proxies at all. though i really want them to look like MECCG cards, so quality of proxies matters! also there is no reason to proxy non-rares, and a serious MECCG player also should at least try to get most of the rare cards.
but if someone is short on money, i would encourage him to use proxies rather than not playing at all.

[Bandobras Took]

If I ever went to a tournament, people might be surprised by how conservative my deck would be compared to all the things I try on GCCG.  My real life set is far from complete (poor man's lament).

One of the things I enjoy most about METW is that it doesn't really come down to "he who buys the most cards wins."  Common cards like River, Dark Tryst, etc. provide strength to a deck -- rarer cards/comboes are cool and fun, but I'm not certain that there's any rare card that's an absolute necessity for all METW decks.

[Earendil]

I casted "Yes - For casual play only".

Well, I actually could see a *complete* use of proxies, since I think there could be a huge amount of people who could start playing MECCG but wouldn't, because it is quite expensive, and most of all difficult, to get all the cards.

Anyway, when I organize official tournaments in Italy, there are some people who would complain about the use of proxies, since they made all the way getting all the cards. I can understand them, since I got all my 3x long time ago and it was very difficult. So proxies are still banned here in offical tournaments.

The question is: is it preferable to reward people because they were able to collect all the cards, or is it preferable to allow new players to come to tournaments w/o collecting all the cards?

'Til now, it has been preferable to reward collectors. Not a bad choice, imho.

I don't know if this will be the best choice in the future. I think that, in the future, it would be better to allow the community increasing, even allowing proxies.

[Gwaihir]

*cough-balrogset-cough*

*cough-dragons-cough*

Over the whole line, MeCCG isn't expensive; it's considerably cheaper than it was when it was introduced. Today's games have instead gone up in price over the years, making ours truly affordable by comparison. In a wider comparison playing MeCCG doesn't come out bad either: renting a squash court or snooker table, or paying the monthly fee for a soccer club quickly comes to a much higher cost per hour of fun had.


I voted for GCCG as it is so ideal for getting to know (which is IMHO key) and playing with everything. I wouldn't really mind an occasional proxy in a casual game either though.

[Zarathustra]

I'm with Wim on this one.  GCCG, and a bit in casual play.  Of course, if you travel a long way to a tournament and you really need to borrow a couple cards to make your deck work, I'm sure some kind soul would be willing to lend just for a weekend....