Indûr Dawndeath

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Ûvatha
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Indûr Dawndeath

Post by Ûvatha » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:51 am

Hello,

When Indûr Dawndeath is played as a permanent event and then tapped in a company's MH fase, can he force the discard of an item that is beared by a wounded character in another company, since his card states: On any character, and not on any character in a given company ?

Thanks in advance.


Ûvatha
Darth Troilo on G.A.B. White Mithril Team.

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Konrad Klar
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Post by Konrad Klar » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:21 am

If "any" has any meaning, then yes.
I'd say yes.
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Marcos
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Post by Marcos » Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:13 pm

what about this:
hazards may target company (or entity associated with this company) only during this company movement hazard phase.

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Majagua_the_Necromancer
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Post by Majagua_the_Necromancer » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:05 pm

i don´t know the correct ruling, but there is a text somewhere that states that a given hazard can´t target specifically a character whose movement/hazard phase has already been resolved, or is yet upon to be resolved.
In the same case, you could tap Adunaphel in a movement/hazard phase to tap a character from a different company whose m/h phase has not been resolved, which doesn´t make sense.

asphalt
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Post by asphalt » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:31 pm

Indur's card text says
If played as a permanent‐event, it will remain in play until tapped during the opponent’s movement/hazard phase (tapping counts against the hazard limit). When tapped, Indûr Dawndeath becomes a short-event and makes any wounded character discard an item (but not a ring).
Given the text's formulation, I'd say he has a general effect on all characters in play, he seems to have no target then.

Marcos
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Post by Marcos » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:49 pm

adunaphel wrote:Unique. Nazgul (7th). May be played as a hazard creature (with one strike) or as a permanent-event. As a creature, may also be played keyed to Brown Lands, Dagorlad, Gorgoroth, and Western Mirkwood; and may also be played at sites in these regions. If played as a permanent-event, it will remain in play until tapped during the opponent's movement/hazard phase (tapping counts against the hazard limit). When tapped, Adunaphel becomes a short-event and causes any one character to tap.
Indur Dawndeath wrote:Unique. Nazgul (4th). May be played as a hazard creature (with one strike) or as a permanent-event. As a creature, may also be played keyed to Harondor, Imlad Morgul, Gorgoroth, and Khand; and may also be played at sites in these regions. If played as a permanent-event, it will remain in play until tapped during the opponent's movement/hazard phase (tapping counts against the hazard limit). When tapped, Indur Dwandeath becomes a short-event and makes any wounded character discard an item (but not a ring).
hazards may target company (or entity associated with this company) only during this company movement hazard phase.
well, if indur has to be interpreted the same as adunaphel, this ruling must be applied to both of them i think...

this is being discussed in this other topic:
http://www.meccg.net/dforum/viewtopic.php?t=2674

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Majagua_the_Necromancer
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Post by Majagua_the_Necromancer » Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:32 pm

so this will all resume to what? that either indur or adunaphel affect a character only during the movement/hazard phase of the company he belongs to.

Marcos
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Post by Marcos » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:15 pm

hehe, good question...  :roll:
Konrad Klar in adunaphel's topic wrote:How about rule: card's text has priority over general rules?

Example:

General rule:
CRF, Turn Sequence, Combat, Attack wrote:In order to cancel an attack or to directly affect an attack, the character doing so must be in the company facing the attack.
Card's text:
Hoarmûrath Unleashed wrote:Playable on Hoarmûrath the Ringwraith (as your Ringwraith). Cancel an attack against any one of your companies.  ...with his far-stretched right hand...great evil in the North.-LotR
Underile mine.
Majagua, i don't really know what to think but i guess that your supposition is correct...

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Majagua_the_Necromancer
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Post by Majagua_the_Necromancer » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:24 pm

Marcos wrote:hehe, good question...  :roll:
Konrad Klar in adunaphel's topic wrote:How about rule: card's text has priority over general rules?

Example:

General rule:
CRF, Turn Sequence, Combat, Attack wrote:In order to cancel an attack or to directly affect an attack, the character doing so must be in the company facing the attack.
Card's text:
Hoarmûrath Unleashed wrote:Playable on Hoarmûrath the Ringwraith (as your Ringwraith). Cancel an attack against any one of your companies.  ...with his far-stretched right hand...great evil in the North.-LotR
Underile mine.
Majagua, i don't really know what to think but i guess that your supposition is correct...
let us hope, marcos, les us hope...

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Konrad Klar
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Post by Konrad Klar » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:53 pm

Marcos wrote:what about this:
hazards may target company (or entity associated with this company) only during this company movement hazard phase.
Sometimes general rules makes certain restrictions and a card makes some extentions to these restrictions.
Examples are a Malady Without Healing that targets character at the same site (normally you cannot target opponent's characters with your own resources), or Exhalation of Decay that targets a card in DP (normally a target must be in play).

Possible interpretations are:
- word "any" used in some Nazgul card's is serial mistake and as such should be ignored,
- word "any" used in some Nazgul card's should be respected likewise in case Hoarműrath Unleashed.

Otherwise ignoring it in case of Nazguls and respecting in case of Hoarműrath Unleashed would be inconsistensy.
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Jaded
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Post by Jaded » Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:12 pm

There is also Adunaphel The Rinwraith...

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Sauron
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Post by Sauron » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:08 pm

CRF:
Hazards may only be played on a company whose movement/hazard phase is being resolved, or on the site they are moving to. Long-events and permanent-events may effect more than one company even though they are only played "on" one company.

CRF:
If a Nazgûl is tapped to become a short-event as printed on its card, it turns into a short-event upon declaration. At this point, the Nazgûl is a short-event just as if had been played as such from your hand.

So it's like a short event being played from your hand.  So it must be played on a company who's M/H Phase it is.

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