Alatar Teleports

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Darksatin
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Alatar Teleports

Post by Darksatin » Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:04 pm

When Alatar teleports to face an hazard creature's strike, can the attack still be canceled ?

Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:28 pm

Alatar wrote:If in a Haven when a hazard creature is played on another company, he may join tha company and face one of the hazard creature's strikes; he must tap and make a corruption check immediately following the attack.
CRF, Alatar wrote:When Alatar uses his special ability he must face a strike. Alatar overrides all other effects pertaining to the assigning of strikes.
If you cancel the attack, Alatar cannot face a strike of the attack.  Therefore cancelling the attack and Alatar's ability are mutually exclusive; you cannot use both on the same attack.

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Darksatin
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Post by Darksatin » Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:00 pm

Interesting.  
But can the hazard player add strikes to the attack after Alatar has declared to teleport ?

Wacho
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Post by Wacho » Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:16 am

Until strikes are actually assigned you may play effects that change the number of strikes.  Since Alatar has to teleport before strikes are assigned the hazard player may respond by increasing the number of strikes.

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Post by TedPikul » Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:56 pm

What about "Sacrifice of Form", can I use it?

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Post by Wacho » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:44 am

I believe so.  Sac of Form is played after strikes are assigned, so the strikes are considered faced.

topresch
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Post by topresch » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:56 pm

Quick question regarding Alatar's 'joining':

After the attack is resolved, does he stay with the company, or does he teleport back to the Haven again?

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zirilan
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Post by zirilan » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:18 pm

topresch wrote:Quick question regarding Alatar's 'joining':

After the attack is resolved, does he stay with the company, or does he teleport back to the Haven again?
Alatar stays with the company and does not automatically teleport back to his site of origin.

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Konrad Klar
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Post by Konrad Klar » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:28 pm

Bandobras Took wrote:If you cancel the attack, Alatar cannot face a strike of the attack.  Therefore cancelling the attack and Alatar's ability are mutually exclusive; you cannot use both on the same attack.
Does it mean also that Alatar cannot fail cc (caused for example by Wizard's Flame) just because he must face strike?
Even if someone would answer YES, he would not avoid the problem in case of Neeker-Breekers, or Carion Feeders (if Alatar is not wounded).
Carion Feeders would be also problem for not wounded Noble Hound and Neeker-Breekers for Gold Chains in The Wind.

I think that all effects that can affect priority of assigning strikes may be applied to the character only if the character is eligible to facing a strike. All "must", "in all cases" or "regardless of ..." does not have meaning broader than "for purpose of reassigning strikes".
CRF, Turn Sequence, Combat, Attack wrote:There are three levels of cards which reassign strikes. Alatar is the top level, and
overrides any other conflicting card which changes the assignment of strikes. Cards
which say they "always" or "in all cases" change the assignment of strikes are the next
level, and override any other conflicting effects except Alatar. Cards which say they
change the assignment of strikes "regardless of ..." certain factors are the third level,
and are overridden by all other effects from conflicting cards. If two effects on the
same level conflict, the resource overrides the hazard.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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Post by Bandobras Took » Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:57 pm

"he may join the company and face one of the hazard creature's strikes"

Another possible way to read the card is that Alatar allows a strike to be assigned to himself regardless of the strike's normal restrictions.  I'm not sure.

My point was simply that facing the strike and joining the company are part of the same ability/effect.  You can't have one without the other.

Another way of looking at it is once Alatar teleports, he is assigned a strike, and it is therefore too late to cancel the attack.

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Post by Konrad Klar » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:18 pm

Bandobras Took wrote: My point was simply that facing the strike and joining the company are part of the same ability/effect.  You can't have one without the other.
I agree that Alatar cannot opt to join company and do not face a strike. First part of my point is that sometimes not facing a strike is not result of decission but result of inability of facing strike caused by other factors. Such factors may be special abilities of attack (Neeker-Breekers, or Carion Feeders) or lack of strikes to assign (when attack is canceled*).  
Bandobras Took wrote: Another way of looking at it is once Alatar teleports, he is assigned a strike, and it is therefore too late to cancel the attack.
And here is second part of may point is: Alatar is listed by CRF as one of effects that changes the assignment of strikes. With priority over "in all cases", or "regardless of ...", but in the same class. I disagree that any of "in all cases", or "regardless of ..." causes strikes to be automatically assigned.

*) And even canceling of attack sometimes is not decision of player. Attack may be forcefully canceled for example due to special abilities of site.
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Post by Bandobras Took » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:50 pm

How's this?

If Alatar didn't face a strike, he obviously didn't teleport, either. :)

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Post by Konrad Klar » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:56 pm

I do not understand what are your objections.

He can teleport to the other Wizardhaven. This action may be declared (and resolved) in response to cancel action caused by special ability of Wizardhaven.
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Post by Bandobras Took » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:41 pm

Similar situation: I play Paths of the Dead on company w/Aragorn at Dunharrow.  During the m/h phase, Aragorn is returned to my hand.
For its movement, a company that starts at the Dunharrow site and contains Aragorn II may move to the Vale of Erech site.
Can the company still move to the Vale of Erech site?

As I read the effect, the answer is no.

Similarly, if Alatar does not face a strike, he can't join the company.  Joining the company and facing a strike are synonymous.  This is not like Marvels Told, where removing a permanent event and making a corruption check are separate effects.

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Post by Marcos » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:42 pm

Bandobras Took wrote:Similar situation: I play Paths of the Dead on company w/Aragorn at Dunharrow.  During the m/h phase, Aragorn is returned to my hand.
For its movement, a company that starts at the Dunharrow site and contains Aragorn II may move to the Vale of Erech site.
Can the company still move to the Vale of Erech site?

As I read the effect, the answer is no.

Similarly, if Alatar does not face a strike, he can't join the company.  Joining the company and facing a strike are synonymous.  This is not like Marvels Told, where removing a permanent event and making a corruption check are separate effects.
what will they do then? return to site of origin?
In my oppinion  if Paths of the dead has already resolved the company is still moving to Vale of Erech, even if Aragorn is put back into hand

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